Gothic Romance Forum, a Community for Gothic Romance Fiction and Literature Lovers

I'm not arguing that a strong female heroine has to be a slut. In fact, I've read many of the historical Gothics as well as the older contemporary Gothics that have strong female characters, who nevertheless, were virgins. What I mean is that more modern Gothics or romantic suspense focuses on lust and the gratification of sexual desires. The heroine is not necessarily promiscuous. However, unlike the heroines of the older books, she decides not to wait. Again, reiterating what I've said before, I don't want a resurgence of poorly written books. I don't want an insipid heroine, an implausible plot, embarrasing dialogue, etc., just for the sake of the atmosphere of an historical setting.

I definetely feel Amanda Quick is the writer to seek. Her books are filled with eerie set pieces and spooky ambiance. Especially her later ones and even more so any of them with the "Arcane Society" stamp. Where can you go to find old gothics?? I have tried used books stores, but not much there. Are there any websites anyone is aware of?? Thanks

Hi Brandon,

Occasionally, I see Gothics at library book sales. Also, they crop up from time to time on eBay. I have added a link in the menu just below the header picture of the site called "Gothic Books" that will automatically pull in Gothic book listings from eBay. Hope it is helpful

Brandon Dodge Wrote:I definetely feel Amanda Quick is the writer to seek. Her books are filled with eerie set pieces and spooky ambiance.

Thanks for the heads up.

Quote:Especially her later ones and even more so any of them with the "Arcane Society" stamp. Where can you go to find old gothics?? I have tried used books stores, but not much there. Are there any websites anyone is aware of?? Thanks

I recommend www.alibris.com

Yes, it is dead. As I wrote in an article of mine, I have a keen interest in literature, specifically that of the 19th century, when Gothic and "weird" fiction was in its heyday. For example, even today, Poe is considered a great master, although we don't really know why. Something about the haunting images of his writing stays with us in addition to the grandiose writing; the overwroughtness; the aura of decadence that resonanted as well with French poet Baudelaire and the French in general. Strange how a man now considered a literary genius was more popular abroad than in his own country.

I do think that our age is much more decadent, but also a lot less Romantic than that gilded age of Gothic Horrors. This is a subject that perturbs me, as I, someone who writes in a vein of Gothic Horror (for the most part), cannot find a proper genre for my writing. It is also disturbing, and asymptomatic of the malady of our modern age: lack of beauty. Unlike Poe's writing, which was beautiful, there is really no beauty in any of the modern Gothic of today. Aside from a few scant authors like Tanith Lee or Angela Carter, there is very little interest in aesthetically pleasing stories with an undertone of both malice and meaning, essential to that of fine Gothic literature.

GothicLover Wrote:The historical gothics that are set in mansions and castles are rare, but occasionally a few get published, mostly with spine labels of "Historical Romance." You have to read the book descriptions carefully to find these. I doubt very much that the historical gothic will have a resurgence in popularity. I've been waiting over 35 years for it to regain popularity. I don't foresee current or later generations seeking its revival, as most of them don't read well, if at all, and if they do read, they are too grounded in the present and are looking toward the future, rather than the past. I predict that books will eventually be replaced by movies entirely, as few people will have time or inclination in the future to spend that much time reading. Note the trend toward graphic novels. I think that's a step in that direction, also.

Sigh. Whatever glint of optimism about this I can muster hopes that people will eventually get so fed up with the lack of substance in most contemporary entertainment that the old genres will see a comeback, of sorts.

One small example: the publishers of "Hard Case Crime" novels. You see these in the bookstores now, and they look like the old pulp paperbacks but a lot of their titles are new. Their whole esthetic and brand-look is purposely dated and their cover artists are having a field day. I keep hoping that other publishers will emulate this (quite successful) line and do the same in other genres -- such as gothic romance!

Yet I suppose, for right now, yes, the gothics are dead -- or at least in a coma. A friend of mine who knows I like gothics recently gave me a book she said was a present-day version of a gothic. It was some indescribably guttery thing having to do with modern-day vampires and it seemed that if you opened to any random page you were in the middle of some tritely written sex scene.

If that's really what the genre's come to, I'll stick to Victoria Holt. Sigh -- again. I've always felt I was born in the wrong epoch!

wkoenigsmann Wrote:It is also disturbing, and asymptomatic of the malady of our modern age: lack of beauty. Unlike Poe's writing, which was beautiful, there is really no beauty in any of the modern Gothic of today.

So true and so regrettable. Even in relatively recent authors like V. Holt and M. Stewart, there is also beauty -- and intelligence. There are references to classical mythology, to art, to music; there is a sense of history, and the suggestion that the authors were educated in these subjects. Witness On the Night of the Seventh Moon, set in romantic Bavaria and full of allusions to Teutonic folklore, most of which would be completely lost (and hence wasted) on the average reader of popular fiction today. Why is that?

Penfeather Wrote:

wkoenigsmann Wrote:It is also disturbing, and asymptomatic of the malady of our modern age: lack of beauty. Unlike Poe's writing, which was beautiful, there is really no beauty in any of the modern Gothic of today.

So true and so regrettable. Even in relatively recent authors like V. Holt and M. Stewart, there is also beauty -- and intelligence. There are references to classical mythology, to art, to music; there is a sense of history, and the suggestion that the authors were educated in these subjects. Witness On the Night of the Seventh Moon, set in romantic Bavaria and full of allusions to Teutonic folklore, most of which would be completely lost (and hence wasted) on the average reader of popular fiction today. Why is that?

I think it goes back to the school system, which has failed to teach younger generations to read, and the change in information dissemination from written to pictorial format. Younger generations see no real need to read, much less WRITE (except to text each other, if you can call that writing). Reading requires imagination and a bit of "work" to visualize what the words present. Younger generations today have been brought up to expect to be entertained and fed visual data that they do not have to do any work to interpret. They also have short attention spans, so info is expected to be delivered in sound bytes. Reading is mostly being relegated to transmittal of data, via newspapers, internet info, and emails.

The internet has resulted in an overwhelming amount of data to process about the present and future. Therefore most people have little concern about the past, let alone teutonic folklore. An interest in history is passe. There's no money in it. Trying to get a handle on the present and future are the current tasks absorbing most people's attention and energies.

Many are overwhelmed by the present and fearful about the future. I think this leads some to inertia and others to escapism. Reading about tawdry sex, vampires, and werewolves is definitely escapism. Reading romances and gothic romances is escapism. (Count me in as an escapist lover of gothic romances!)

Is there much romance in everyday life in the present? I doubt it. Look at the movies being offered. They are mainly edgy mysteries, thrillers, adventures. The few romances offered are usally filled with swear words, cell phones, traffic, stress, gays, lesbians, absurd situations, and/or weddings. There are very few traditional romantic movies being offered (except maybe on the Hallmark channel) where a man and a woman simply fall in love, overcome obstacles, and live happily ever after.

Look at all the reality shows based on weddings, as if that is the only time in a woman's life that she will be allowed to be truly romantic. After that, it's back to the reality of everyday life, with its extreme stress, worries about fidelity, and fears about the future and bringing kids into this going-crazy world. Thus the extreme pressure to make that wedding day perfect.

I wish I could be more optimistic, but when I do take my head out of a gothic romance novel and look way far down the road, I see books themselves disappearing as a source of entertainment, replaced entirely by visual and audio media. I then take comfort in that probably not happening in my lifetime and go back to my really good read.

GothicLover Wrote:I think it goes back to the school system, which has failed to teach younger generations to read, and the change in information dissemination from written to pictorial format.

The schools can only do so much. There isn't much incentive to be a schoolteacher these days. The pay is lousy and the teachers have their hands tied as far as the curriculum goes; there is no room for the "teacher as artist" or the truly dedicated teacher who sees to the individual needs of students and invests personally in their growth and learning. That no longer exists because it isn't allowed to exist in our country, except perhaps at exclusive private schools beyond the means of the average family.

I'm more inclined to blame parenting. As I see it, today's kids are weaned on a glutting of video games, TV and computer-related junk. Parents, partly because of the demands of making ends meet nowadays and the consequent lack of free time and draining of energy, are happy to plant the kids in front of the TV or Playstation, and that is that. The Playstation is the nanny, the babysitter of today. As a result today's children must be continually entertained in a staccato way, and as you say their attention spans are totally atrophied. I shouldn't restrict this comment to children -- there are plenty of adult "children" around now who are the result of this societal failure.

Reading starts at home. I know parents who do not own a TV set or, if they do, restrict its use. Their children are given books to read and reading is made part of the family culture; it's "in the air" at home. Books are discussed at the dinner table, and not just Harry Potter. It can be done but it requires a certain type of parent. Teachers are all but helpless to instill a love of reading without support in the home.

GothicLover Wrote:They are mainly edgy mysteries, thrillers, adventures. The few romances offered are usally filled with swear words, cell phones, traffic, stress, gays, lesbians, absurd situations, and/or weddings.

Ugh, how I detest that word "edgy"! It just seems to be a code-word for cynical and obnoxious.

Gays and lesbians? Do we really want to go there? This is a personal topic, and throwing it into the list the way you did might be taken as inflammatory by some readers. How do you know there aren't gay or lesbian Gothic readers on this forum?

GothicLover Wrote:Look at all the reality shows based on weddings, as if that is the only time in a woman's life that she will be allowed to be truly romantic. After that, it's back to the reality of everyday life, with its extreme stress, worries about fidelity, and fears about the future and bringing kids into this going-crazy world. Thus the extreme pressure to make that wedding day perfect.

There is nothing romantic about these ostentatious, vulgar, grotesque TV weddings where it all comes down to the dollar figure. Money = love. Such spectacles are the very opposite of romance; they are exhibitionistic displays of material fetishism. Where is the intimacy in such nonsense?

A final word on the weasel word "escapism". Anything you read is escapism, whether it's Remembrance of Things Past or the latest Nora Roberts novel. Even non-fiction is a kind of escapism. I don't believe there is anything wrong with wanting to escape, at least for a little while, from the stress of reality. We're human beings, we're complicated animals. It might do for a three-toed sloth to hang from a tree all day, but most of us homo sapiens, especially the reading type, require rather more.

Penfeather Wrote:

GothicLover Wrote:They are mainly edgy mysteries, thrillers, adventures. The few romances offered are usally filled with swear words, cell phones, traffic, stress, gays, lesbians, absurd situations, and/or weddings.

Gays and lesbians? Do we really want to go there? This is a personal topic, and throwing it into the list the way you did might be taken as inflammatory by some readers. How do you know there aren't gay or lesbian Gothic readers on this forum?

No intent to inflame anyone. Just pointing out that all of the things mentioned are not elements found in traditional gothic romance novels or old-fashioned romances.

GothicLover Wrote:Look at all the reality shows based on weddings, as if that is the only time in a woman's life that she will be allowed to be truly romantic. After that, it's back to the reality of everyday life, with its extreme stress, worries about fidelity, and fears about the future and bringing kids into this going-crazy world. Thus the extreme pressure to make that wedding day perfect.

Penfeather Wrote:There is nothing romantic about these ostentatious, vulgar, grotesque TV weddings where it all comes down to the dollar figure. Money = love. Such spectacles are the very opposite of romance; they are exhibitionistic displays of material fetishism. Where is the intimacy in such nonsense?

You are right in equating love with intimacy and equally astute in attributing the premise behind the ostentatious TV weddings as money = love. However, there are other wedding shows, such as "Say Yes to the Dress" where the bride and family get all teary eyed over how lovely and romantic the bride looks in her dress. I guess I was thinking more of the latter when I was talking about being allowed to look/feel romantic only on that special day.

Penfeather Wrote:A final word on the weasel word "escapism". Anything you read is escapism, whether it's Remembrance of Things Past or the latest Nora Roberts novel. Even non-fiction is a kind of escapism. I don't believe there is anything wrong with wanting to escape, at least for a little while, from the stress of reality.

I agree there is nothing wrong with escapism. Some people like to escape into fantasy/romance. Others like to escape into reading that will edify them in some way. Others like to escape into brain exercise, like trying to solve a mystery. Different strokes for different folks. Good point.
Thanks for your thoughtful responses to my post.