Is Gothic literature dead?

[Desdemona]

I completely disagree. Sexuality, including homosexuality, has long been an undercurrent in the Gothic Romance. Mrs. Danvers, anyone?

I'm glad someone else thought Mrs. Danvers was sexually obsessed with Rebecca. There is a very powerful undercurrent in the bedroom scene.

[Monique Devereaux]

I completely disagree. Sexuality, including homosexuality, has long been an undercurrent in the Gothic Romance. Mrs. Danvers, anyone?

I'm glad someone else thought Mrs. Danvers was sexually obsessed with Rebecca. There is a very powerful undercurrent in the bedroom scene.

That makes three of us! Not really surprising since Du Maurier appeared to be a closet Lesbian herself.

It's interesting though that this particular group is focused on the 20th Gothic Romance as an offshoot of contemporary women's love stories, when in fact it is the direct descendent of such highly sexually charged works, which have been cited in the past few posts, as well as Bram Stoker's notorious vampire shocker! I'm glad there are plenty of us with feet in both camps...it makes the dialogues and debates a little bit more fun.

[maisonvivante]

It's interesting though that this particular group is focused on the 20th Gothic Romance as an offshoot of contemporary women's love stories, when in fact it is the direct descendent of such highly sexually charged works, which have been cited in the past few posts, as well as Bram Stoker's notorious vampire shocker! I'm glad there are plenty of us with feet in both camps...it makes the dialogues and debates a little bit more fun.

Definitely! To make a generalization, twentieth century Gothic Romances really seem to appeal to two different crowds: romance readers vs. "light" horror readers. For the most part, I think the readers of these books were/are women interested in a romance with a bit of a creepy, sinister setting. Other people (like me, a twelve-year boy at the time of my Gothic Romance genre discovery, who was obsessed with mysteries but tired of traditional whodunits) have slipped in along the way, intrigued by the moody settings and mystery plots, and less interested in the romance plot. It seems that overt horror has taken the place (in the publishing world, anyway) to the more elegant horrors of the Gothic Romance--horrors that tended to be unseen, for the most part.

I've always found it fascinating that "Rebecca," the novel that essentially crystallized the genre for 20th century readers, actually has such a strange, unsatisfying romance at the heart of it. Maxim is a deeply troubled fellow, and at the end of the book, there aren't happy years ahead for these two. Likewise, he never really pays for his wrongdoing. Du Maurier also provided an unsettling "happy" ending for "Jamaica Inn," another work that helped establish the genre. Du Maurier said of "Rebecca" that she was shocked when people took it for a romance, since she saw it as a work about hate. Mrs. Danvers is perhaps the most passionate person in the novel; trouble is, her romantic attachment appears to be a dead, manipulative woman.

I do think the genre as a whole is regarded as "trash" by most mainstream scholars. That's one reason I was interested in trying to create a Best Gothic Romance List. I wonder which books in the future will be regarded not just as disposable Romance genre books, but real literature. Certainly, Du Maurier and Mary Stewart are on their way, but who else? It will be interesting to see if any of the less obscure (but well written) books in the genre get a reprint in our lifetime.

[Monique Devereaux]

Other people (like me, a twelve-year boy at the time of my Gothic Romance genre discovery, who was obsessed with mysteries but tired of traditional whodunits) have slipped in along the way, intrigued by the moody settings and mystery plots, and less interested in the romance plot.

You're a man? So am I! (and read them for the same reasons) - lol - this is almost straight out of one of those gothic impersonation plots!

[Desdemona]

[quote=Monique Devereaux]

I've always found it fascinating that "Rebecca," the novel that essentially crystallized the genre for 20th century readers, actually has such a strange, unsatisfying romance at the heart of it. Maxim is a deeply troubled fellow, and at the end of the book, there aren't happy years ahead for these two. Likewise, he never really pays for his wrongdoing. Du Maurier also provided an unsettling "happy" ending for "Jamaica Inn," another work that helped establish the genre. Du Maurier said of "Rebecca" that she was shocked when people took it for a romance, since she saw it as a work about hate. Mrs. Danvers is perhaps the most passionate person in the novel; trouble is, her romantic attachment appears to be a dead, manipulative woman.

I recently watched Alfred Hitchcock's Rebecca. It's a testament to the acting of Joan Fontaine and Laurence Olivier that I was actually moved by the story. They are rather flat and frustrating characters in print, but I felt that the portrayals were passionate, especially Olivier's. If anyone can make Maxim into a sympathetic character, it's Olivier.

(I would add that, in addition to Mrs. Danvers, Rebecca was the another passionate character in the book...but she's dead!)

[eddy123]

I read a comment Desdemona made and I wondered, Is the Gothic genre dead?

It's true that it's difficult to find "Gothic" on the spine label these days. As others have pointed out, it might be due to the fear that the book might not sell if it was associated with the trash labelled "Gothic" back in the days when they were overabundant. However, I hoped that the true Gothic lovers would provide the demand for good, well-written Gothics. I'm waiting to see gothic romances become a definite genre again.

To quote 'Gothic romance novels, historical and contemporary, have been on the shelves for decades under many names... sometimes called "paranormal romance," sometimes "romantic suspense," but still the necessary elements of a true gothic romance--heroine in peril, isolated setting, hero of questionable motives--remained. For all of us who have loved gothic romance, and sought them out, no matter what was on the book's spine, we have created this group. Enjoy.' http://www.gothrom.net/

[Cherchezlafemme]

I'm one who doesn't consider Rebecca a "gothic romance." Sure, it's a rip-off of Jane Eyre, but it is less about a man becoming worthy of a woman (Rochester and Jane), and more a tale of obsession, malice and manipulation. When I was younger I used to idolize Rebecca, considering it a romantic story, but when I re-read the book 18 months ago and then rewatched the movie, I was turned off. Maxim de Winter was a sad, manipulative mess, and the end of the book is rather bitter: the second Mrs. de Winter has only gained some measure of confidence and security in Maxim's "love" because he's weak. It's a pretty nasty story when you think of it, and a testament to du Maurier's immense skill that it is so engrossing and memorable.

However, back to the subject: I don't think the gothic romance (in the vein of Holt, Whitney, et al) will make its return. Even though a few of Victoria Holt's books have been reissued, I think the genre is viewed by most people today as somewhat kitschy. Or at their most superficial, anti-feminist due to the gothic craze producing a "formula" (innocent heroine, cruel hero, spooky atmosphere, other woman) that the best gothic romance writers didn't even do (compare a churned out GR to a Victoria Holt novel, or even a Madeline Brent, and you'll see that people took the superficial elements of the genre and produced tons of books in that vein). I write, and most of my books have an element of gothic romance in them, but readers today either don't have the patience with the GR "formula" or they don't realize they're getting it through the best-selling category romance line: Harlequin Presents.

[paigenumber]

However, back to the subject: I don't think the gothic romance (in the vein of Holt, Whitney, et al) will make its return. Even though a few of Victoria Holt's books have been reissued, I think the genre is viewed by most people today as somewhat kitschy. Or at their most superficial, anti-feminist due to the gothic craze producing a "formula" (innocent heroine, cruel hero, spooky atmosphere, other woman) that the best gothic romance writers didn't even do (compare a churned out GR to a Victoria Holt novel, or even a Madeline Brent, and you'll see that people took the superficial elements of the genre and produced tons of books in that vein). I write, and most of my books have an element of gothic romance in them, but readers today either don't have the patience with the GR "formula" or they don't realize they're getting it through the best-selling category romance line: Harlequin Presents.

I think you make a good point that there are Gothic elements in other romance books, but it is not recognized as such, and publishers are not likely to point them out. However, I hope you're wrong that Gothics will not return. Even a "formula" would be welcomed by me at this time, as long as the writing and plotting is good. There are several authors here that say they write some form of Gothic. What I'd like is to see the genre re-introduced.

[black tulip]

Yes, it is dead. As I wrote in an article of mine, I have a keen interest in literature, specifically that of the 19th century, when Gothic and "weird" fiction was in its heyday. For example, even today, Poe is considered a great master, although we don't really know why. Something about the haunting images of his writing stays with us in addition to the grandiose writing; the overwroughtness; the aura of decadence that resonanted as well with French poet Baudelaire and the French in general. Strange how a man now considered a literary genius was more popular abroad than in his own country.

I do think that our age is much more decadent, but also a lot less Romantic than that gilded age of Gothic Horrors. This is a subject that perturbs me, as I, someone who writes in a vein of Gothic Horror (for the most part), cannot find a proper genre for my writing. It is also disturbing, and asymptomatic of the malady of our modern age: lack of beauty. Unlike Poe's writing, which was beautiful, there is really no beauty in any of the modern Gothic of today. Aside from a few scant authors like Tanith Lee or Angela Carter, there is very little interest in aesthetically pleasing stories with an undertone of both malice and meaning, essential to that of fine Gothic literature.

I think we do know why Poe is considered a master of the gothic, it is because he took his lead from Walpole. Walpole had already written about some of the themes Poe tackled later on. I definitely disagree with you that the genre is dead, it is so not! Any of Anne Rice's vampire chronicles are gothic, particularly Sarah Waters is another fine gothic writer. Waters is heavily influenced by Dickens and Collins but she is a master at threading good classic 19th c. gothic into her novels which are set in 19th c. She has a Phd in lit. and did her thesis on Dickens so there you go.

Susan Hill is another great gothic writer of today, Woman in Black and Mrs De Winter are fab!